Why we should have zero immigration

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pmconusa
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Why we should have zero immigration

In 2017, nearly 4.5 million will reach the retirement age of 65. Over 5 million will reach working age where they will need a job in order to survive. This requires that 500,000 jobs be created each year just to stay even. On top of this the government admits nearly 1 million immigrants and nearly 1 million green card holders or others on temporary work visa.
The consequence is that 2.5 million jobs must be created each year or over 200,000 each month.
Since the 1930s, employers have found ways to reduce the number of workers needed, first by employing machines and then outsourcing those jobs to foreign countries. Most recently it is not creating jobs by not starting businesses whose costs cannot be recovered from the prices that have to be charged. The latter is foreign competition where the jobs created for the goods being bought are outside the country and unavailable to unemployed Americans. Even in the U. S., employers are contriving all sorts of ways to reduce the amount of human labor because it is the single most expensive element of what is being sold and its cost rises every year, either due to the inflation of the dollar or government interference in the labor market (minimum wage).
Each new consumer added to the population requires at a minimum at least 2-3 acres of arable land be added to produce the food (fuel) necessary for survival. The United States is actually reducing the amount of arable land each year and now imports enough food (fuel) to sustain over 50 million people. The majority of it comes from Mexico and Central America who, in order to maintain their ability to feed their own population, produce this surplus but at the same time export their excess population to the U. S. This trend will continue until our population reaches a condition where we will have to start rationing the supply and reduce the amount of human food (fuel) we produce to feed pets and livestock.
Before that occurs, we will become like many countries in Africa and the Middle East where the alternative to migration to welfare states has become a civil war between the ruling class and those being subjugated.
Your government has delayed the latter by creating the largest welfare state in history but it has its limits and we are approaching them at an even more rapid pace. The answer is not only population control but a system of distribution of nature’s bounty equally to everyone and the surplus to those few necessary to affect the distribution.

Melvin Udall
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That last sentence is a real

That last sentence is a real beauty.

Like I said once before, we can trust that pm sees himself as the head of the "few necessary to affect the distribution."

That is, the unelected dictator of this system. No-one else has his grasp of the details and the rationale. And the insights to rule and save the universe.

Toolsmith
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Animal Farm. There's always

Animal Farm. There's always someone "more equal" than the rest.

pmconusa
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Talk about missing the forest

Talk about missing the forest for the trees. The people effecting the distribution are the farmers, the truck drivers, the processors who effect the distribution of our fuel and the ones who make the shoes, the clothes, build the houses and yes, put out the fires and wars that destroy the distribution system. In a socialist system they get no more than all the rest, including those who can but do not contribute their time and skill. It is the politicians, the lawyers, and all of the government workers producing things no one wants or needs. We are the participants in the free market place and have no need of these leeches but not only have we created them, we have put them in charge. Government is necessary to deter them from stealing, which is the only purpose of government. You cannot stop people from stealing but you can make the punishment for it severe enough to deter its perpetration. We have created a government that steals legally through taxes to perpetuate their thieving and given power to banks to steal through usury and unionized labor through extortion.

Those of you who have kept your heads in the sand, primarily because you have benefited from this system, have stolen your grandchildren's future unknowingly because the system has a fatal flaw that is now being evidenced in Africa and the middle east and that is we are exhausting, by our increasing populations, the ability of these countries who have adopted this system now finding themselves no longer able to produce the food necessary for survival and have nothing anyone wants to trade for it.

Melvin Udall
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Without trees, there is no

The answer is not only population control but a system of distribution of nature’s bounty equally to everyone and the surplus to those few necessary to affect the distribution.

On which I commented, and you took umbrage.

Note the use of the verb "affect," referring to "those FEW necessary to AFFECT the distribution." You, pmcon, responded with this:

"Talk about missing the forest for the trees. The people effecting the distribution are the farmers, the truck drivers, the processors who effect the distribution of our fuel and the ones who make the shoes, the clothes, build the houses and yes, put out the fires and wars that destroy the distribution system. In a socialist system they get no more than all the rest, including those who can but do not contribute their time and skill."

Without trees, there is no forest, Forrest. Suddenly you have MOST "effecting distribution," instead of "those FEW necessary...."

Things boil down to some basics: the makers & producers; the distributors; and those who decide what gets made and produced and by who; and who it gets distributed to and in what amounts; and who will do the distribution. Most of the makers & producers will need products from others to make, grow, or produce their output, and "someone" will have to decide who should provide it to whom, distributed how and by who.

Farmers, shoe-makers, and the like are not intrinsically distributors.

Then there's the issue of what the shoe-maker gets in return for his shoes. How much wheat, how much fat back, how much milk. Etc, etc, etc...

I maintain that your system, or any other on a very large scale, cannot work effectively and without conflict (yeah, right) without some supreme decider in chief in charge. Someone has to be the meanest, biggest, toughest male lion in the jungle. The Alpha SOB, so to speak.

In the human version, human nature means that no matter how good, noble, and unselfish the intentions of the supreme decider in chief (Supdic) may be, he will always be petitioned by untold numbers of lesser beings looking to improve their lot and court the favors of the Supdic.

Human nature cannot be erased unless the Supdic issues daily Soma rations, in which case the system takes on another entire level of complications and vulnerabilities.

I submit that even if you won't admit it, you are convinced you are the only one with the wisdom and knowledge necessary to be an effective Supdic, and to choose who will be your successors and train them. There's another hoard of worms in the wheat silo.

Oh, and since you want population control, perhaps you need to determine just how that would work. I suppose one method would be to command that all males be neutered at birth, and designate the Supdic and one or two of his anointed seedmen to do the allowed insemination of those females deigned worthy of having their genes propagated.

Now you know the rest of the story.

Which is in my new book, now in work, with a proposed title of Twenty Fifty-Four.

"It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters " - Daniel Webster

By the way, you like to lecture us on the Constitution, while at the same time pointing out that it carries no authority in how this nation operates. We ignore it at every turn as we see fit.

So when will you be publishing the Constitution for your Obedient New World, and how will you ensure that it is obeyed in every detail, with no exceptions entertained or unpunished?

Bruce Libby
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That deserves a :

That deserves a :
Drumroll and Rimshot !

pmconusa
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You know very well what the

You know very well what the forest saying means and it is not literal but pedantic. If I were to say it literally it would be someone who can't see the forest because the trees get in the way. There is another saying, ignorance is bliss. which should make you two the happiest guys on the planet, but no, you are not ignorant in the way most people including myself are in not knowing everything. You are stupid because the real truth has been shaded by progressive thinking meaning you believe everything others tell you is truth and have not shown you what is the real truth because it would not make you happy.

In my book The Real Economy I expose the current economic system as doomed to failure and explain why. You have not read it and if you had you would know the truth. You chide me on my attachment to the kcal but it is the basis for the sustainability of all living things, not gold or the almighty dollar. Take away the food supply and there is no life and without life there is nothing. That is not true, because the dinosaurs are gone as are many other species. What made them disappear? The most plausible explanation is they ran out of food and I describe how this can happen in the same book. If you look at the statistics of world agriculture you will quickly see this is the cause of the current world turmoil and migration because food is not shared equally around the world although there is plenty of it. The problem is we have maxed out in food production but have not stopped the growth of mouths needing to be fed. Despite the charity or your government, who steals the income of working Americans in an uneven way and gives it to those who have none, the system has a limit and we reached it in the 1980s when the kcal production equaled the needs and we had to start importing them.

To top that off we began arbitraging our wheat and corn production which contains more kcal for fruits and vegetables that have much less. But, if you read my book you would know that. How the politicians did it in an accelerating fashion is explained in my latest book, which you will also not read because its contains the truth you do not want to here. For anyone else less biased and interested in how your politicians are steeling your children's future you may buy my book on Amazon under the title "The Constitution- A Document Steeped in History and a Compromise Devoid of Promise".

Melvin Udall
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A great job of avoiding what

A great job of avoiding what I said in my post, other than deriding me/us. For not buying your book, among other things. Which puts us in a select cohort of boundless magnitude.

Gotta love this passage in your off on the p-axis response:

You are stupid because the real truth has been shaded by progressive thinking meaning you believe everything others tell you is truth and have not shown you what is the real truth because it would not make you happy. ...... In my book The Real Economy I expose the current economic system as doomed to failure and explain why. You have not read it and if you had you would know the truth.

So on the one hand, we're stupid because we "believe everything others tell you is truth." And on the other hand, we're stupid for not believing what you tell us is truth. Which somehow falls outside "everything others tell you..."

Now I get it. You are the only one to whom "it" has been revealed, and only those who buy and read your book will be able to know "it" as well. All that others tell us will only confirm and cement our stupidity if we believe them. Understandable, given these circumstances, why you are the only one worthy of being Supdic.

You don't happen to be related to L. Ron Hubbard, do you? Is some sort of electronic gizmo a part of the whole package?

You should apply for a teaching job at Bowdoin. You'll fit right into their zeitgeist, assuming you believe that "gender," among other things is a social construct. And for that matter, "truth" is as well, and is so yesterday.

Moving Forward
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On a related topic,

On a related topic,
USA Today had an interesting article titled “Report: More than half of immigrants on welfare” that’s posted at https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/01/immigrant-welfare-... and worth checking out if you haven't already seen it.

Melvin Udall
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pmcon has lost interesting in

pmcon has lost interesting in "discussing" or "debating" this topic with anyone but his-self, because everyone else is stupid.

So he has thrown out a new piece of bait with which he will eventually do the same thing.

pmconusa
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If you want a debate, debate.

If you want a debate, debate. The only other side of this issue are those who believe there are benefits of immigration and I haven't heard you utter one yet.

Melvin Udall
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I took direct issue with

I took direct issue with statements you made. And you responded not a bit.

All you want to to is float like a butterfly and poop like a bluebird of singular genius upon others, because they don't roger up with yes sir, yes sir, three bowls full.

When someone engages on your chain of logic and loose reasoning, you simply dive under a rock.

pmconusa
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If you took the time to read

If you took the time to read my book you would have all the answers you need to satisfy your curiosity about my thesis.

My economic system is pure barter. That is the trading of time, made possible by kcals, for the things others produce that we cannot. No one is self sufficient, that is grows their own food and has access to air and water. The food, nature provides free to those who cultivate it. Nature provides the air uniformly to everyone but potable water is limited to certain areas of the earth and can only survive where it is available or can be traded by those who have a surplus to those who have something to trade for it.

Children require food but cannot work until they reach a certain age. The elderly cannot work because they are unable to compete with those more fit for the few jobs available and who do not have dependents to support. Women cannot compete with men and still perform the functions to which they are most suited, that of caring for themselves, their children and the elderly parents who raised them. This is how the capitalist system works. One must work for a living.

In the barter system, everyone is given the value of the kcal being produced by the economy that is sufficient to sustain life. That is the equivalent of about 2500 kcals per day. Nature provides it free to those who cultivate and then distribute it or process it. Parents have control of their children's share until they too become independent. If you are completely self-sufficient you must grow and process your own food, build your own shelter and make your own clothes. No one can do this anymore, not even the farmer and therefore must buy the time, with their kcals, of those who have the food, make the clothing and provide the shelter. These are the contributors to the economy and because they have needed and wanted skills, can earn the kcal of others in order to improve their own lives.

The cardinal rule of such a system is that ordained by God as told to Moses; Thou shalt not steal, the punishment for which is death. As described in Deuteronomy, the punishment is meant to deter others from doing the only thing prohibited and to purge society of those who cannot govern themselves.

Socialism and Communism fail because all are treated alike, including those who can participate in the economy but chose not to. Why this fails was evidenced by the experiences of the Pilgrims who landed at Plymouth. It is a story worth reading because it reflects on the resentment of those who contribute when they can against those who can but don't.

In this system there are no taxes necessary, except to extract the excess profits of monopoly which is essentially a form of theft. Several other necessary rules are given for this system such as there is nothing that appreciates in value, scarcity not being considered value. Even in the capitalist system, depreciation is only a means by which capital investment is taxed, a mechanism totally unnecessary in a barter system.

The capitalist system thrives and can exist solely through ownership of nature's reproducible and non-reproducible assets. Through ownership, the owner gets to determine who gets what is surplus to his own needs. When the framers of the Constitution mandated that the only mechanism for the settlement of debts can be gold and silver, they assured the owners of these assets, themselves, would maintain control and the holders of these assets. They did not give consideration to the fact that these measures are themselves limited and ever changing, based on the kcal necessary to produce them.

It was not until the early 1900s when fallibility of this system was exposed. Gold and silver production had reached a point where it cost more than their imputed "value" to produce them. It should have been a wake up call, but the owners of these assets had built the rules of distribution around the principle he who has the gold makes the rules and were loathe to give them up or change them.

The scenario that follows is all described and covered in my book The Real Economy and we have been on the road to bankruptcy at a faster pace ever since as our politicians grope to find a way to satisfy the greed of the 51% or more while at the same time keeping those who have not enough from growing in numbers.

My mistake has been the assumption that if I could figure this out, others with an equivalent education could have figured it out as well. Unfortunately, the majority who benefit from the system do not care to know because it does not effect them. No one likes to have the knowledge of how they were taken advantage of by the very people who promise them the moon and don't deliver because they cannot.

I have asked on this blog on many occasions, what would happen if the government ceased all payments to individuals who no longer produce? The answer is one need only look to Africa, parts of the Middle East and South and Central America; mass migration and civil war. This condition will rapidly approach the United States and as I have already shown in papers I have written, it can be calculated with reasonable accuracy and depends solely on how fast our population reaches critical mass. That is, when the amount of kcal we produce or can buy becomes equal to its consumption.

Its all in the book, I dare you to read it.

Melvin Udall
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If you don't believe me.....

If you don't believe me......read my book.

What's wrong with this picture?

pmconusa
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Absolutely nothing.

Absolutely nothing.

Bruce Libby
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Nothing ,except all us stupid

Nothing ,except all us stupid (add in every other insult you have honored us with )
people who have managed to be able to see thru your bullshit,because that is all it is.

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