Forest Fires - Caused by Tree Hugger policies?

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Toolsmith
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Forest Fires - Caused by Tree Hugger policies?

Can't fix stupid...

http://thefederalist.com/2018/11/16/misguided-environmentalism-blame-cal...

Just as hunting bans caused and explosion of deer population, which then resulted in sick deer and an explosion of Lyme disease... so not managing the forest results in sick trees and big forest fires.

Melvin Udall
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We had friends who lived in

We had friends who lived in Estes Park, CO at the entrance to Rocky Mountain National Park in the 70's and 80's. They had the same problem there. The environazis protested good forest management, and there were periodic problematic wildfires as a result.

Ugenetoo
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There are only two ways that

There are only two ways that wood leaves the forest.
People harvest it, or it burns.

Melvin Udall
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There you have it: clarity.

There you have it: clarity.

Ugenetoo
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This comes from the logging

This comes from the logging community, so the leftards will dismiss it out of hand.
Still, they speak the truth.

https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/nov/16/loggers-support-donald-tr...

Matt
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This is, to a large extent,

This is, to a large extent, bullshit. Historically in the west, when logging companies have been given access to BLM and national forest land to log, they’ve high graded it. They take the mature, valuable timber—the kinds of trees that can actually survive a fire because of their size and bark thickness, and so regenerate woods in a fire’s aftermath—and left behind the thin scrub and slash that will burn hot and fast.

Yes, good forest management allows for all sorts of uses and value, but in general, that’s not what these companies have been interested in.

Feel free to lap up industry propaganda, though.

Toolsmith
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Proper management means

Proper management means regular wet-season burns, not just timber harvest.

The regular burns are necessary even on land where timber is never harvested.

johnw
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Matt having cut on national

Matt having cut on national forest land in the past it doesn’t work that way. Professional foresters evaluate and mark the timber for cutting,it’s not left up to those slope headed Neanderthal logger types or the grasping greedy timber companies they work for. Well educated stewards of the forest in crisp green uniforms do the deciding on which ,whenand where trees are harvested.

Melvin Udall
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And when controlled burns are

And when controlled burns are called for and appropriate to manage the larger interests.

Rebecca
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I can't help but notice that

I can't help but notice that the major volume of fire locations in California are located in State managed areas. There are fires in the Federal managed areas but most of them are located on the district borders with State controlled areas. That leaves open the probable chance that those fires first started on State managed lands. It appears that the President is correct when stating that the poor forest management practices practiced are largely responsible for the massive losses located there. We get threatened all the time about loss of school subsidies if certain practices mandated by the State or federal govt. are not followed. Why should forest management be any different?

Ugenetoo
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Mattybubbles espouses the

Mattybubbles espouses the usual leftard talking points about forest management.
The facts are that these radical environmentalist that have hijacked the US forest service have pursued a "natural" approach to forest management.
No logging, no road building, and no understory management
The results of the "natural" approach of hands off forestry is what you now see in California.
I'm sure the seventy dead and 600 missing all felt much better to have made the ultimate sacrifice for the "natural" environment.

Toolsmith
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And as I've noted in the past

And as I've noted in the past, "natural" is not the prior state of forests in the Americas. The forests were "managed" by the native tribes with wet spring burns and species-selective harvesting.

The whole "natural forest" idea is a discredited myth embraced by the eco-obsessed left.

The left has grabbed at myths about the past to justify their politics before, the "noble savage" probably being the worst. The native tribes weren't peaceful before 1492... they warred constantly, and many tribes didn't live on ancestral land when they first encountered explorers and/or settlers - they lived in land taken from other tribes in war.

Ugenetoo
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A ground breaking idea!!!

A ground breaking idea!!!
Use a sustainable resource such as logging in our national forests to pay for forest fire mitigation efforts.
Support manufacturing jobs as a spinoff.
But wait!
"It's not "natural"", say the leftard radical enviroterrorists.

California's Deadliest Fires Could Have Been Mitigated By Prevention

The federal government controls 46 percent of California’s land, much of it managed by the U.S. Forest Service. In the three decades before 1990, foresters harvested 10-12 billion board feet of timber from national forests every year. By 2013, restrictive environmental policies cut that to 2.5 billion. While the harvest declined, so too did tree thinning and the clearing of brush and diseased trees. The Trump administration is reversing that trend with the biggest harvest of trees on federal land in 20 years, selling 3.4 billion board feet on some 3 million acres—still just a third of the typical pre-1990 harvest.
Harvesting trees on public land is controversial but helps pay for needed brush clearing. Many environmental groups vigorously oppose both. But fighting the larger, hotter fires that result without active forest management is even more costly and threatens lives.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2018/11/16/californias-deadlies...

Bruce Libby
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"Clearing of brush"

"Clearing of brush"

The fact fires have decreased in Maine is related to the chipping of what use to be slash !
The increased mechanization of harvesting also reduced need for camps where a drunken logger would dispose of a cigarette while
relieving themselves outdoors !

Based on evidence from uncle who was supervisor of northern district for forest service.

Ugenetoo
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Look for that to change as

Look for that to change as the market for pulp and biomass continues to degrade.
These biomass burning plants are just barely hanging on, and we've seen what the paper industry has suffered in the past five to ten years.
Luckily, we have a wetter climate than the DESERT southwest.
The trouble with the Southwest US is that there are too many people living there, and they are being guided by fkng idiots.

Bruce Libby
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So true and all that

So true and all that vegetation just has to be right up against ones' property.

Northarrow
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The invasion caravan is

The invasion caravan is heading toward California (tell the military, who are stringing barb wire in Texas). Let them in and give them all rakes and brooms. According to Trump, Finland spends a lot of time raking and sweeping. Win/Win...they can do the job that Americans aren’t doing.

Melvin Udall
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people like mattzine look to

people like mattzine look to the Sierra Club to teach them how to behave like tree stumps.

Matt
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People like Udall seem to

People like Udall seem to enjoy being spoon fed. And not just their apple sauce.

Rebecca
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Gov. Jerry Brown Quietly

Gov. Jerry Brown Quietly Admits Trump Was Right, Eases California Logging Rules

https://www.dailywire.com/news/38520/gov-jerry-brown-quietly-admits-trum...

Gee, Trump is right ...again. Read it for yourselves.

mainemom
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Here's an informative article

Here's an informative article about the subject, from an objective source. High Country News

What fire researchers learned from California’s blazes
In California, land managers use fire as a tool.

The areas in question are often inaccessible to heavy equipment.
Using fire at the proper time of year is the only way to reduce the danger of catastrophic fire at the wrong time of year.
Unfortunately, the policy has been tilted toward fire suppression instead.

Residential development encroaching into these areas has made the use of fire for forest management more difficult; the obligation by necessity shifts to protecting people and property instead of managing the land.

There also seems to be an aversion to the controlled use of fire because burning trees releases carbon dioxide that has been locked up in the forest. The article shows that short term releases through controlled burns will save trees in the longer term and thus reduce emissions over time.

I marvel that people take positions on how to attack this problem based on what they think of Trump and what HIS position seems to be, instead of based on the thinking of people in the know.
Not everything ought to come down to defending Trump or defeating him.

Northarrow
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“Not everything ought to come

“Not everything ought to come down to defending Trump or defeating him”.

Of course not mainemom, but here we are, aren’t we? I believe Trump’s antics (witness the latest flack over McRaven), has established the tone for divisiveness in today’s policy dialogue. No matter the issue, it always is framed within the context of ‘are they on my side, or the other (bad) side’. What Trump has created is reflected and utilized by his opposition as well. No one should be surprised that the politics of power is the recipe for defeating the other side - reason and logic need not apply.

Bruce Libby
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Your correct.

Your correct.
Evidenced by your caravan post above.

Northarrow
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Gov. Jerry Brown Quietly

Gov. Jerry Brown Quietly Admits Trump Was Right, Eases California Logging Rules - Rebecca

This is not an accurate statement. Gov. Brown recommended slight modifications to forest management practices back in August, long before the current fires, and long before Trump ever yapped about the need to rake & sweep ALA Finland. Brown’s recommendations seem like common sense to me, but I’d hardly attribute them to Trump’s directives or grandstanding involvement.

#makeamericarakeagain.

expat
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Brown knows how to play Trump

Brown knows how to play Trump. He avoided stressing the role of global warming in increased forest fires and sucked up to him to ensure federal relief funds.

expat
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(No subject)

Rebecca
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Has anyone noticed that the

Has anyone noticed that the burning of fields in early spring has been discontinued over the years? This was done to prevent unwanted wildfire from igniting while everyone who would be available to man a volunteer fire department was otherwise occupied. A former MFFS friend of mine told me quite a while ago that Federal rules about Carbon and smoke contaminants in the atmosphere were allowed and that should any State exceed its assigned limit that Federal subsidies would be forfeit. The threat of withholding funds is not a new one and has been used before. We can see it in our own State if we only see it for what it is.

PS: The volunteer fire service is the mainstay of fire suppression in the State of Maine. Look It Up.

mainemom
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Jim Meigs sounds pretty smart

Jim Meigs sounds pretty smart on the topic of California wildfires:

Living on the Edge
Just as coastal communities must learn to live with hurricanes, communities that edge up against forests are going to have to learn to live with fire.

Ugenetoo
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This was done to prevent

This was done to prevent unwanted wildfire from igniting while everyone who would be available to man a volunteer fire department was otherwise occupied.
That may be true, Rebecca, but the major reason to burn in the spring was to kill the bushes that would spring up all across the fields.
Now the envirotards say that releases too much CO2, so instead we are using a hydrocarbon burning tractor and bush hog to prune the bushes, while not really killing them.
I plowed a field this fall that had not been in production since 1975, but had been mowed nearly every year.
When the tiny bushes were pulled out of the soil, they had massive root systems that guaranteed their survival, year after year.

As usual these feel good idiots know not the damage they do with their hit and run good-deedisms.

Rebecca
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Usenet, Burning also

Usenet, Burning also resulted in the same outcome. The roots were not destroyed. What was destroyed was the flammable mat of grass that built up on fields as well as insect eggs and other undesirable fungi that may have already begun to propagate. This is also one of the reasons that blueberry fields are burned. Fungus is a crop destroyer and an allergen which can irritate some people. It also destroys hay crops that have been "put away wet". This too causes barn fires in some instances. Fields that are cared for and kept trimmed on a regular basis generally do not have a problem. It's the environmentally "responsible" people that do not care for the fields in a responsible manner or simply do not care enough to tend them. How sad.

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