GOP Tax Bill passes

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anonymous_coward
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GOP Tax Bill passes

... at 2 AM, with handwritten scribbles and cross outs, basically distributed to everyone a few hours beforehand:
https://i.imgur.com/75AalU3.png
https://i.imgur.com/Qmy9A2x.jpg

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The deficit & debt always suffer when one party controls both the legislature and and the executive branch.

GOP/Dem, they're the same - mortgaging the future of the country. The only difference is where the money ends up. For the GOP, it ends up in the pockets of big corporations, the military industrial complex, and the wealthy. Dems, it's labor unions and poor people.

Well I don't know about you guys, but I'd like to consider the swamp drained!

Watcher
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I cruised through the

I cruised through the internet looking for a realistic, unbiased presentation of the GOP tax regs just passed. I found articles by the Washington Post, the Tax Policy Center, CNN, NYT, the New Yorker, PBS, Social Security Works.org, VOX, CBS News, Bloomberg....ad infinitum. Even Forbes took the Leftist view. (the link below is to an article on how Conservatives lost Forbes and the Leftist Swine took over.) None of these publications or programs can be trusted. Strangely, as the ones noted above were the lead articles on a Google search (another non-trustworthy group), very few Conservative articles were shown.

A CATO article essentially called Liberal leaning Tax Policy Center a bunch of liars for faking the data.

Anyway, there seems to be no objective truth out there Left or Right. At least something was done....

Losing Forbes to Liberals

Matt
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If Forbes takes the leftist

If Forbes takes the leftist view, maybe it’s not the leftist view, dumbass.

Al Amoling
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"When the debate is lost,

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of losers." Socrates

anonymous_coward
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@Watcher:

@Watcher:

Well you can't really fake the CBO score, it's essentially formulaic. And they apply the same formula to budgets, regardless of political party.

So while I'll agree there were a lot of slanted view points, you can't argue that this doesn't increase the deficit. The argument being given is the trickle down one - that "increased economic growth driven by fiscal stimulus will make up for the deficit".

Basically a promise, instead of solid fiscal responsibility.

Here's a great way to look at it. Read the summary of the changes, but replace "Republican" with "Democrat" and vice versa, and then evaluate the bill. If this were a Dem bill with this kind of deficit increase, it would be an obviously irresponsible bill.

Matt
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AC,

AC,

Allow me to translate Watcher’s statement. “No objective truth out there left or right” means “I couldn’t find anything—even from conservative sources—hat proved this tax cut won’t inflate the deficit and will help the middle class.” You know why? Because it’s going to inflate the deficit and debt, cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations (uh, the biggest swamp supporters), throw a few small bones to a few middle class tax payers, and hurt the poor. It’s a friggin travesty.

johnw
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Anguish King (looking pained)

Anguish King (looking pained) says we’re going to find some really stinky stuff in the gop tax bill,Iwonder if it will be a stinky as obama “health care “law........the one that he has supported?

pmconusa
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The tax bill has not passed.

The tax bill has not passed. Two bills now have to be reconciled and unlike the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) it will not look like either bill when the politicians get done reconciling it because they have major differences needed to placate the constituencies of both parties so that it looks revenue neutral or something approaching it in order to make it appear each participant has done his best for his constituency or that they at least tried but could not overcome the opposition.

Like Greece, we have reached a point where continued borrowing decreases the value of the dollar to the point where the amount of red ink exceeds the economy's ability to pay the interest, let alone the principle without destroying the economy all together. Unlike Greece, we have no where we can go to borrow more so the government must start taxing those who have the ability to pay by eliminating benefits previously rendered to maintain the imbalance of the distribution of wealth.

This situation was inevitable because of the economic system we and all other societies in recorded history have adopted. I describe it fully in my book The Real Economy and how the politicians have been able to maintain it by breaking their own laws in my latest, The Constitution, a Document Steeped in History and a Compromise Devoid of Promise. My detractors, who have not read either but who are quick to criticize have so far failed to prove me wrong.

By the way, whatever bill finally passes is a Bill of Attainder and specifically prohibited by the constitutions of both the State and Federal governments. A bill of attainder is a law directed at an individual or group in order to exact punishment (taxes). The Lords of England got the King to agree, in the Magna Carta that he would enact no law that was directed at any of them in particular as a way of keeping them in check. In simple terms, the law had to apply to everyone equally.

As I have said on numerous occasions, corporations do not pay taxes, their customers do because corporate taxes are a cost of business and are passed on to the consumer through the price of the goods or service. The European Union and many other countries have what is called a value added tax (VAT) which all consumers pay when they buy the product or service. For many of those governments, their continued increase in spending on things government's are not by constitution required to provide reaches a point where even a 100% VAT will not cover it.

A case will illustrate the ridiculousness of this system. Government employees, particularly unionized ones, must be paid an increase each year just to offset the rate of inflation or better, the decrease in the purchasing power of the dollar which is the natural effect of a currency that accumulates and is not consumed. Their pension plan calls for a payment of 2% of the highest three years salary. A Brunswick teacher with 40 years service will receive nearly twice what it would cost to hire a new teacher in retirement. The teacher's contribution to this amount is under 10% and the remainder is picked up by the taxpayer through the State's taxing system. Unlike the federal government, the state has established a State employees retirement fund, but has reneged on funding it completely as required by law. Even if it did, the amount being paid would not be equivalent to amount input annually due to the decreasing purchasing power of the dollar which is inherent in the system. The same is true if you start saving money for retirement, leaving the government out it entirely. The difference is the government in the previous case protects its employees from the loss of purchasing power by paying out more than was collected. Such a system cannot survive, as I point out in my book.

Bruce Libby
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True to form Anguish failed

True to form Anguish failed to mention reduction of spending in his commentary on tax bill.

Watcher
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True Bruce....not only Anus

True Bruce....not only Anus King failed to address the real issue (spending) but both parties ignored it completely. The CAGW (Citizens Against Government Waste) have some real solutions but, they have been ignored for decades and we gutless Americans refuse to make our government be accountable.

Melvin Udall
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Angus, Susan, and all too

Angus, Susan, and all too many others have as their first priority the moocher (or taker) classes.

Free college tuition, and anything else anyone can dream up.

Hell, we even provide free narcotics in some cases. (Methadone)

Matt
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Lol. And Melvin has the

Lol. And Melvin has the silver spooner class as his priority. Nothing says “make America great again” like daddy passing on grampy’s millions to Jr.

So many frauds standing on third base lecturing the working and non-working poor about how to hit triples...

Melvin Udall
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Time for a Cab Calloway spin

Time for a Cab Calloway spin-off called "mutty the moocher."

"Hidey-hidey-hidey-ho! In mom's basement don't ya' know!"

Fidley
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Mr. Mel, Collins voted for

Mr. Mel, Collins voted for the tax bill; I've never heard her say she supports free tuition or free narcotics. If she's as bad as you claim you shouldn't have to make stuff up.

Matt
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...says the clueless turd who

...says the clueless turd who has the gummint paying for his high blood pressure meds, walker and adult diapers.

Moving Forward
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Fidley, you should have heard

Fidley, you should have heard Senator Collins last night on the CBS News... she didn't sound overly confident or positive about voting to support the final final Tax Plan that will come out of the House & Senate together.

Yes, she did vote to support the Senate Plan but she could still join with her progressive buddies and vote against the final plan. As they say, only time will tell so we'll have to wait and see what she does in the end.

Mike G
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Deficit? The deficit is so

Deficit? The deficit is so out of control, DC doesn't care one wit about it and as far as this tax plan, just more breaks for the 1%. Don't worry, the FED will just print more money for DC to "borrow".

A Coward comes out with the typical diatribe regurgitated by democrats every where.

For the GOP, it ends up in the pockets of big corporations, the military industrial complex, and the wealthy. Dems, it's labor unions and poor people.

The piece of crap prize winner supported every bit of big corps, MIC and wealthy and so does the uniparty.

No one in DC supports the middle class or poor, we don't send them enough bribes, campaign contributions and yet we are stupid enough to continue voting for them.

Melvin Udall
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So if anyone in the 99% pays

So if anyone in the 99% pays lower taxes under this bill, is it just "more breaks for those who barely pay their fair share in the first place?"

anonymous_coward
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@Mike G: So you're basically

@Mike G: So you're basically saying that you agree with me?

anonymous_coward
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@Melvin: What is their "fair

@Melvin: What is their "fair share"?

Melvin Udall
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Just applying the hot-button

Just applying the hot-button phrase of the left...."Fair Share" is a wondrous term in such matters because it can't be pinned down by anyone.

Maybe Gerald will chip in and clarify.

Though in the case of those who pay not a nickel of tax, or even receive income via filing, "fair share" can be approximated by a word like "something."

pmconusa
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There was no mention of

There was no mention of reductions in spending because there weren't any. The only thing that was done to reduce spending was eliminate certain deductions which is not spending but fleecing certain individuals more than others. If there was a reduction in spending why is there still a $1.5 Trillion deficit. I doubt this is the number because they cannot even count the population let alone know what the economy will do other than increase the amount of entitlements.

Bruce Libby
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At this conjuncture 99% of

At this conjuncture 99% of this discussion is very much like passing gas.
Most immedately it is a sense of relief or a smelly situation,in most cases the duration is very short and futue results
are unpredictable to any degree of certainty.

Bruce Libby
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At this conjuncture 99% of

delete

Bruce Libby
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At this conjuncture 99% of

delete

Melvin Udall
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So says you....you....you....

So says you....you....you.....

Bruce Libby
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Yes , I do and did did !

Yes , I do and did did !

johnw
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The idea that the government

The idea that the government could possibly run out of money always reminds me of a friend of mine who used to say "I can't be out of money there's still checks in the check book". I

Mike G
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A Coward

A Coward

I agree that this tax bill will greatly benefit the corps and 1% and does nothing for the middle class and poor other than raise the deficit that no one in DC cares about and that will eventually destroy the dollars worth.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: The deficit & debt always suffer when one party controls both the legislature and and the executive branch.

I'll agree with that also and the two parties play games saying they don't support what the opposition is doing, while if their guy proposed it they would be right on board. What fools we are to get concerned about their little games they play, the uniparty.

Democrats cater to the MIC, banks and Corps just as much if not more than the GOP. It is just wishful thinking by progressives, it is a fantasy.

JackStrawFromWichita
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29% approval rating: http:/
Bruce Libby
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shouldn'tthat b e29% approve

Shouldn't that be 29% approve of 50% of a two part proosal which has not been finalized.
Or preliminary flatuence.

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